who owns a motorsport/909 or built up escort cosworth

[pride & performance]

well i think an escos is an escos no matter what the plate, colour, number, shell concourse or race car whatever they are all stunning motors


what about stolen recovered cossies that have no vin numbers and are police stamped, how do they fair up with valuations?

[PABRST]

Hi my Escos is a built from a new 909 trimmed shell with loads of 909 and standard brand new parts it also had a brand new Graham Goodge engine and a Brand new Quaiffe Dog Gearbox. The car was built specifically for circuit racing and was registerd as a new car with the correct age plate. The car is registered as an ESCORT and thats it no cosworth or RS anywhere on the log book and it has a kit car chassis number.
The problem I think the RS Owner Club has is that even though my car is obviously a an Escort Cosworth it is not an "RS" and only a car originally built and commissioned by Fords can become an RS - Take an RS500 or RS200 for an example you could technically buy all the parts including a spare shell from Fords build the car up exactly the same and then try convicing everyone it is a genuine RS which it will never be and you will never get it registered as an RS unless you ring it onto a scrapped car log book.
Plus the genuine car owners would go mental about a built up car owner saying it is the real deal
So my opinion on it all..... well I know what my car is and technically the car is an exact replica but at the end of the day it is not an RS and never will be.
Does it bother me? Not at all but...........the RSOC must never allow any car into the club if it is not an RS (Rally Car, Prototype, Mule etc) which I bet they don't adhere to!
This is just my voice on a bit of a delicate matter so don't shoot me down in flames but believe it or not I am a member of the RSOC cos I also own a S1 Turbo but if I did not own the RS I would still rather own my ESCOS than be a member of a clicky car club.

Cheers Pete

P.S Love the Forum (Better than the RSOC LOL)

[Sunnysidebb]

Very Very emotive subject. Having been there with most of the Escort RS Cosworth's I have Built from shells with Ford stamped on every single part. I know how hard , no actually, I know its practically impossible to get a car from a Bare shall Recognised.
What I would say is the alarm bells should have started to ring for any ESCOS owner who has stripped his shell back to bare metal and fitted say a Harvey engine,GEMS ECU, DOME diffs, Quaife S/C Gear box, Bilstein Coils overs ,6 deg rear beam, AP Brakes and OZ Rims and a mongoose exhaust, PACE intercooler & Rads the list of mods goes on & on. Where is the original RS now, no where to be seen it never left the factory like that???. What a huge can of worms this could open and it will end in The only difference in some of our cars is a Ford Fitter( now probably working for ASDA) built a car as apposed to to good restoration company or even a very talented owner.
If this post upsets people and gets used to whip me later for arguing so be it. At least I can hold my hand up and say I have over 15 years of doing just that with Cosworths and never managed to get a proper RS Logbook or RS recognition . The answer who knows, but what I would say is they are still RS cars just not official Ford Registered RS Cars. The moment you stray away form the original car's design means its not how a ford fitter built it and hence not an official Ford RS, it is still however an RS. IMO
Frank

PS my next project is a 1962 Split Screen Camper with : Porsche 964 engine , box suspension, brakes and wheels. You can imagine what the SSVC will think of that.lol

[COZZFATHER]

the prob is if you knew what you were doing you could get a 909 shell registered as a escort cosworth,look at all the works cars they were built up look at all malcolm wilsons cars they were built up. i have had q reg rs's and they said exactly what the car was and rs or cosworth on the log book,its who did the bizzo down the dvla and which office that counted imo.

if you knew what you were doing and spent the money and had all the recipts you did get the car registered as a escort cosworth and brand new,it just cost a fortune or you needed to even then know a master forger who could replicate recipts to show you bought new parts when really they came from the back of the motoring news or the automart

[Joe-Tait]

How many insurance companys recognise this special RSOC pricing scheme?

Very snobish the whole subject considering the escort cosworth value is held because of the rally/motorsport history

[blacky]

lol its funny how people worry so much about what it on the log book

as an alpina owner i have heard all sorts of story's about logbooks mine says BMW alpina B10 but some people dont even have alpina on there logbooks they just have BMW B10 or what ever model they own

they are all alpinas but whats on the log book depends on how well it was first registered

if your that bothereed about what the logbook says you cant apply to the dvla to change it to the correct thing

how can anyone say a car that left the factory without all its parts isnt classed as the same as a car that left the factory with all the parts fitted

[Sunnysidebb]

lol its funny how people worry so much about what it on the log book

as an alpina owner i have heard all sorts of story's about logbooks mine says BMW alpina B10 but some people dont even have alpina on there logbooks they just have BMW B10 or what ever model they own

they are all alpinas but whats on the log book depends on how well it was first registered

if your that bothereed about what the logbook says you cant apply to the dvla to change it to the correct thing

how can anyone say a car that left the factory without all its parts isnt classed as the same as a car that left the factory with all the parts fitted

Totally agree and there is some history as to why cosworths are a Problem.

In the Mid 1990's Ford took out an injunction against DVLA ordering them not to give a car that has been built from parts the Cosworth Name and model on the V5. I fell foul of this very thing with my first ESCOS I built. I had every single part receipted and original Ford. The Chap form Chester DVLA office would not give me a Cosworth Logbook. I pressed them with a letter from Blaine's Solicitors in Ellesmere Port and there official answer was what I have said about ford raising an injunction.
You have to understand if not agree with Ford's point of view. Unlike almost any other Car produced in the world, it was possible to take a Ford Sierra 4x4 Cosworth and practically re shell it into a New Escort Cosworth Shell ( some times modding a FWD Escort shell not even a Cosworth). At first log books were issued, but it soon became apparent to the ford bosses that the number of built up Escorts could out weight the number that left the factory . So they stopped any car regardless of age being registered as an ESCOS. There were many before the injunction that made it to full ESCOS status and as Karl says if you know how to buck the system it could still be done. But for us mere mortals that is the answer as to why you cant get a V5 saying RS Cosworth if you or some one else built the car from bits of any age including brand spanking new.

I am not just talking Q plate but the name written on the V5. I have built over 4 Astra Rally cars from shells and they all had Vauxhall Astra on the V5 but were still Q plated. Which the definition is a Vehicle built from from new or used parts some or all of which may be of indeterminate age or origin.
IMO my ESCOS should have had Ford Escort Rs cosworth on the v5 and a Q plate.....14 years later it no longer matters to me but is still very emotive.

This is not from the annuls of Jackanory, its the facts as were told to me by a solicitor and DVLA in July 29th 1997.(EDITED July 1998 not 97)
Frank
Frank

[DrewWrc]

I must be one of the lucky ones then cos I've got a 909shell m reg and a escos logbook

[Sunnysidebb]

I must be one of the lucky ones then cos I've got a 909shell m reg and a escos logbook

M reg, what year would that be. 1994 I think? So yes you were lucky. I tryed in July 1998 and not 1997 as I earlier posted ( will correct post). iI couldn get one then. So good one, your a winner IMO
FRank

[DrewWrc]

Early 95m reg but I still can't be a full member.thank god for you lot

[FRASER]

I must be one of the lucky ones then cos I've got a 909shell m reg and a escos logbook

Me too, My logbook clearly says Escort RS Cosworth, cos thats what it is, it's not a Capri is it

[Paul RS]

The million dollar question is - Is you chassis number stamped up or down?

[FRASER]

The million dollar question is - Is you chassis number stamped up or down

Down, as the DVLA issue the chassis number and then it is hand stamped not machine stamped. When we built the Escort cosworth rally cars, the police (always traffic division) would come and witness the stamping of the shell. Hence why alot of rally cars are stamped on the right front strut top. It was unlikely that this panel would ever be replaced.

[Sunnysidebb]

Down, as the DVLA issue the chassis number and then it is hand stamped not machine stamped. When we built the Escort cosworth rally cars, the police (always traffic division) would come and witness the stamping of the shell. Hence why alot of rally cars are stamped on the right front strut top. It was unlikely that this panel would ever be replaced.

I stamped mine in front of Mike Harris, an RAC MSA scrutineer went to work for Berni Eccles Cake , became F1 Head scrutineer and retired from the force.. He was also at the time a sergeant in South Wirral Traffic division.
Frank

[COZZFATHER]

how many 909's got a sabtvro chassis number and said escort rs cosworth on the v5 log book i wonder

like i said i have had q platers that said rs cosworth on them so i know it was possible yer get me