who runs compresiion struts?

[grcossie]

This is suhe ones

[Mike Rainbird]

Im running them with no anti roll bar it seems fine

Do you know what compression struts actually do compared to the OE ARB arrangement?

Do you know what you were actually hoping to achieve by swapping to this arrangement?

Serious questions - as most people do it because of what they "think" rather than what they "know" .

[the youth]

give us you wisdom on them mike, I've got some for my race car so that I can set the front end geometry properly, well not me but cornering force a track set up specialist
http://www.corneringforce.com/
what bladed arb set up can I fit with std adjustable type bottom arms?

steve

[Mike Rainbird]

give us you wisdom on them mike, I've got some for my race car so that I can set the front end geometry properly, well not me but cornering force a track set up specialist
http://www.corneringforce.com/
what bladed arb set up can I fit with std adjustable type bottom arms?

steve

They're not for "setting" the geometry (this is done by adjustable top mounts) - although they can be used to achieve an even greater caster angle if necessary. They are for holding the strut in a fixed position, so that under braking / acceleration, the strut does not move under the forward and backward compressive forces that the strut endures.

All you have to do is look at the OE ARB to see what it actually does. It has two roles - acting as an ARB and acting as a compression strut. Obviously due to it using rubber or even poly bushes, it is compromised in the fact that the forces exerted on it under acceleration / braking will allow it to move by a few mm back and forth as the bush is compressed (I can't say I have noticed it on my car though LOL). However, if you are convinced it is an issue, then you can fit the black motorsport bushes into the TCA and ARB mounts, this will reduce this to an amount that would be almost as good as solid mounts.

You have to remember that rally cars are different as they require an infinitely adjustable set-up to suit the constantly changing road surfaces. So it made sense to separate these two items, as the stiffness of the ARB could need to change from stage to stage, where the rigidity of the strut is a fixed requirement.

You'd need to get the Grp A mount and bladed ARB set-up:

[the youth]

cheers for the pics mike exactly what Im looking for.
I was aware what the compression strut did I just didn't include that bit! I have adjustable top mounts already and was wanting the set up to be totally adjustable hence going for C struts aswell as holding tighter.
I need to make or fab the bracket up then look for the roll bar bits I know TCS does them anywhere else or are they my best bet?

steve

[Mike Rainbird]

cheers for the pics mike exactly what Im looking for.
I was aware what the compression strut did I just didn't include that bit! I have adjustable top mounts already and was wanting the set up to be totally adjustable hence going for C struts aswell as holding tighter.
I need to make or fab the bracket up then look for the roll bar bits I know TCS does them anywhere else or are they my best bet?

steve

MK Motorsport for the ARB parts (he can even mod your TCAs to accept the drop links).

I have the blue alloy part for sale .

http://www.escortrscosworth.com/foru...ad.php?t=31460

[RS 500 Registrar]

Mike

I think you give less credit to the caster angle gain as this is the main reson for using comp struts

By moving the wheel forwrd this gives a greater castor angle , and this is the main reason ( along with as you say , less movement )

Ps, ,,Ring me you gimp

[Mike Rainbird]

Mike

I think you give less credit to the caster angle gain as this is the main reson for using comp struts

By moving the wheel forwrd this gives a greater castor angle , and this is the main reason ( along with as you say , less movement )

The rally cars don't run very large amounts of caster - the Grp A / WRC setting is only 3°30' (which is under twice the standard setting), which is easily achieved with top mounts (my own car is dialled in to this setting with just eccentric top mounts and I could easily achieve 7° before even having to think about compression struts). If it was a drift car, I could understand the need for bigger caster angles LOL.

Even the settings achieved on the RS500s was done with a factory style ARB (and the standard one can be shimmed to achieve the same effect).

[Mike Rainbird]

Grp A cross-member sold to the Yorkshire cunt .

[RS 500 Registrar]

The rally cars don't run very large amounts of caster - the Grp A / WRC setting is only 3°30' (which is under twice the standard setting), which is easily achieved with top mounts (my own car is dialled in to this setting with just eccentric top mounts and I could easily achieve 7° before even having to think about compression struts). If it was a drift car, I could understand the need for bigger caster angles LOL.

Even the settings achieved on the RS500s was done with a factory style ARB (and the standard one can be shimmed to achieve the same effect).

But we arnt talking WRC hence why i say that comp stuts are a complete waist of time and money unless fitted with a ARB like most rally cars and race cars

ner ner na ner ner



So fook off you bum chomping homo

ps, get that Group A item to me asap ,,faggot

[markk]

[QUOTE=RS 500 Registrar;517351]Mark

you ALWAYS argue regards Comp struts Just like over 10 year ago when I had high compression turbo engines and now look what is happening.

Yes, against people that say they will not work without an ARB

you SHOULD know full well the correct aplication for them , and road / track use is NOT what they are for

I know perfectly well, longitudinal chassis location, thus removing any option for exacerbating geo changes during braking & cornering.

If you want to use them fine ,but you shouldnt give credit for useing them for the wrong aplication , i 100% wouldnt and never will

Thanks, and ok.

I have far more experiance in motorsport than i think you know about mark and have been around the motorsport scene for many many years and had involvment in much higher scenes than clubman rallying , so i have plenty of knowlage thank you

Really?

Are you sure you realy know what the correct aplication for comp stuts are , as your reply would sugest not

See above.

You say that it turned in fine ,,,well i hope it does as this is the whole point of comp stuts , to allow the car to shove the front wheels forward offering a much better angle on the front wheels when in lock , BUT , mainly on gravell where grip is at a minimum so a roll bar actually becomes no use what so ever , plus RALLY cars are running such hard suspension this also can take away the need for a ARB , NOT the case in road or track cars on a tarmac track

Sorry to disappoint, we do not run excessive castor, I actually do want to be able to turn the steering wheel, not fight it for straight line stability.

Rally cars, hard suspension? I don't think so mate. have a read through the works manuals.
FYI - the works escorts Mk1/2 used to spec comp struts for tar and ARB for gravel, but im sure you already knew that

I also competed in grass track racing for many years , where like gravel there was very limited grip on corners so comp struts were used to give a very high amount of Neg camber on full lock giving much imporved grip , again without an ARB as an ARB wasnt much use when the front end cant grip and slides rather than rolls , as we all know to make a car roll a lot if first needs great grip ,,what you dont get on grass or gravell , yet you do on tarmac , hence wht Bladed ARBs are usually fitted

How did the comp strut give the neg camber? Please explain as I do not get your theory here, I get the roll/grip thing, but the compression struts and the negative camber does not make sense to me.
For something like that I would be looking at camber on full lock, also the Toe out on turns as to the Ackerman degree for turn in.

I will stand my my advice that Comp struts on road / track cars is not a good idea without a ARB, I tried it myself on my RWD escoss track / road car and i found it rolled massivly and rattled on the road due to the comp struts being a solid mount ( ie no bushes ) all rose jointed , i quicly went back to an ARB and the car was a 1000 times better

Funny that, as pretty much everyone I have spoken to who has tried it has kept them on but you.
Even on my rally car I don't get noise from my compression strut setup, are you sure you fitted them correctly
And massive roll - how much effect do you think the standard roll bar gives? - it hardly promotes massive roll, maybe on a 20 year old sierra with 20 year old shockers, but as with my advise, most people have changed to some sort of upgrades suspension by the time I recommend having ago at it. If you are chasing 10ths then fit the bar as well.

I would say that most folk would agree that a road / track car should be more like a race car than a Gravel spec rally car regards suspension set up , and the race cars always run ARBs
See above for the road-going 10ths lol , sometimes I just like to feel I have a well planted car underneath me that actually turns when I turn the steering wheel, compression struts give that feel when set up correctly.

Paul, there is a lot more to 'bolting on' components to suspension geometry, first you have to understand the basic principles and have the underpinning knowledge of what the change effect is going to be, what is going to be happening to the wheels now when I am on full lock under braking, what is the camber change going to achieve under all operating conditions, why do I need more castor, what is my vehicle doing that I do not like, why is it not turning in on left handers over 40mph etc etc.

Then you need the correct equipment to work with that knowledge to make the correct adjustments.
Having driven/competed does not make you any more an expert that the next person.

Ok, we shall disagree.

[Cochyn]

Run compression struts on mine without an ARB and the turn in is amazing, really made an exciting drive on the Ring last weekend. I've driven my car all over Europe with this setup without any issues, can't imagine it better TBH....

[SCS j1mbo]

Run compression struts on mine without an ARB and the turn in is amazing, really made an exciting drive on the Ring last weekend. I've driven my car all over Europe with this setup without any issues, can't imagine it better TBH....

Al, your happy with your car because you know no better, IMHO soft springs. Fair size arb and comp struts are the way to go. You get good traction and stability whilst the bars look after the roll and e comp struts allow no movement. Our late spec grp a car was insane.. However for track only springs needed upping but we did air fields

My personal opinion on this is don't go comp strut without the arb. Using springs to control roll ends up with a very skitters car on anything bar corners. And a road car deffinately not.

[RSescorts]

give us you wisdom on them mike, I've got some for my race car so that I can set the front end geometry properly, well not me but cornering force a track set up specialist
http://www.corneringforce.com/
what bladed arb set up can I fit with std adjustable type bottom arms?

steve

Ste,
I have a roll bar and compression strut setup on the saff rally car very similar to the "Suhe" type, but on the esc cos rally car its comp struts without arb,
Difficult to say which is best, ive never had chance to test both like for like...

cheers
Ken

[ossie cossie]

I was looking in the Rally Design catalogue and saw they sell a Sierra anti roll bar system part no RD5206 would this be able to be fitted to an escos with compression struts? It says it can be made to fit other cars.