Borg Warners are Amazing!

[AJC]

works great on my 7.5 - 1

see how the 7670 does on the 2wd saff with 8-1

[cossiedavid]

8374 works great on mine at 7.8.1 to
andy 7670 be like a t2 on a fiesta rs

[Cossie col]

I'm all for the Borg Warner's on the right spec, but its just the cost that puts me off and I can easily find things more urgent to spend the money on. Hence why I'd be more swayed towards a basic tried and tested, reliable spec like what I have. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

But glad to see people still developing the old lump and producing a far more progressive drive

Why are you swayed to a 20year old turbo and setuphad t25, t35, t38, rb t4 which was the biggest mistake ever, then efr7670 and its the best my car has driven by a long waygear change the boost is instant, power is just there but unless you have tried it, it's hard to belive the difference

[DAI COSSY]

works great on my 7.5 - 1

see how the 7670 does on the 2wd saff with 8-1

That's good to know if in future i fancy this conversion,it's just cost is the main issue,it may be worth every penny but rough figures are a lot
1-1500 manifold
2-1500 turbo
3-2-2500 management
Then convert down pipe etc and mapping this lot is gonna be ££££ then I've got the pro alloy intercooler which really need to be a spec r garret core jobby this is a not the straight forward job.

Why are you swayed to a 20year old turbo and setuphad t25, t35, t38, rb t4 which was the biggest mistake ever, then efr7670 and its the best my car has driven by a long waygear change the boost is instant, power is just there but unless you have tried it, it's hard to belive the difference

I know what your saying,and agree ive searched and looked at the graphs on the old school the gt30 and the bw are yes every bit better low down for sure and should be being new modern turbo .(something I have noticed though is the bw graphs I see tail off earlier I could be wrong)
I've done the same thing just recently t34/38/35/gt30-76-82 T-4 etc
I have my 3dr on gt30 escos on t4- both low comp specced motors for 500+
And I do plan in future to try the Bw and yes in some turbos mainly the t38 I have deffo regretted some but on the esco with that t4 between 6-8.5rpm as you know it's insane love it's delivery to the Rev limiter but it the gear change that struggles at that revs tbh
You can't win,high Reving engine need sequential £££££
Bw £££££££ to get it
Either way it's ££££££ lol
Both motors have ups and downs either way

[Nash]

They are defo the way forward if your building from scratch and or have the cash to swap.

The big thing for me is even after I have sold all my own stuff I will still need to find £4-5k to change over to an EFR plus mapping. I like many others I expect cannot justify that amount of money to change over. Many of us run a spec as old as the Ark and still enjoy our cars.

[lee2cossies]

Il be getting my car on the road in the next few weeks Dai run it in then mapped, we'll have to meet up and u can have a go see what u think of the Borg Warner set up. Hopefully mine will be as good as what everyone else's is as I'm still on l8 for time being and sx200, but plan on efr, management change and linered block next.

That's good to know if in future i fancy this conversion,it's just cost is the main issue,it may be worth every penny but rough figures are a lot
1-1500 manifold
2-1500 turbo
3-2-2500 management
Then convert down pipe etc and mapping this lot is gonna be ££££ then I've got the pro alloy intercooler which really need to be a spec r garret core jobby this is a not the straight forward job.



I know what your saying,and agree ive searched and looked at the graphs on the old school the gt30 and the bw are yes every bit better low down for sure and should be being new modern turbo .(something I have noticed though is the bw graphs I see tail off earlier I could be wrong)
I've done the same thing just recently t34/38/35/gt30-76-82 T-4 etc
I have my 3dr on gt30 escos on t4- both low comp specced motors for 500+
And I do plan in future to try the Bw and yes in some turbos mainly the t38 I have deffo regretted some but on the esco with that t4 between 6-8.5rpm as you know it's insane love it's delivery to the Rev limiter but it the gear change that struggles at that revs tbh
You can't win,high Reving engine need sequential £££££
Bw £££££££ to get it
Either way it's ££££££ lol
Both motors have ups and downs either way

[DAI COSSY]

Il be getting my car on the road in the next few weeks Dai run it in then mapped, we'll have to meet up and u can have a go see what u think of the Borg Warner set up. Hopefully mine will be as good as what everyone else's is as I'm still on l8 for time being and sx200, but plan on efr, management change and linered block next.

Thanks lee,that would be cool i defiantly need a ride in one to understand this for sure,let me know when your ready

[mark shead]

After nearly 3 years of being parked up and worked on, took the Monte out last night to start mapping it, Borg Warner S200sx Twin Scroll fitted and just WOW!!!

Absolutely amazed me, just shy of 30psi and it absolutely flies, far superior than the GT30 in every way, feels like it spools instantly, no lag, pulls harder, definitely faster than the GT30 and its currently running less boost.

Now to book a date on the Dyno to do some more

I now know why Mark Shead recommends them! I think anyone that was to drive one would be converted instantly.

Oh and a thank you to Dave Pritchard who talked me into it, and Will Pedley for the installation of aftermarket management.

Have you booked the dyno yet.

Mark

[SCS j1mbo]

That's good to know if in future i fancy this conversion,it's just cost is the main issue,it may be worth every penny but rough figures are a lot
1-1500 manifold
2-1500 turbo
3-2-2500 management
Then convert down pipe etc and mapping this lot is gonna be ££££ then I've got the pro alloy intercooler which really need to be a spec r garret core jobby this is a not the straight forward job.



I know what your saying,and agree ive searched and looked at the graphs on the old school the gt30 and the bw are yes every bit better low down for sure and should be being new modern turbo .(something I have noticed though is the bw graphs I see tail off earlier I could be wrong)
I've done the same thing just recently t34/38/35/gt30-76-82 T-4 etc
I have my 3dr on gt30 escos on t4- both low comp specced motors for 500+
And I do plan in future to try the Bw and yes in some turbos mainly the t38 I have deffo regretted some but on the esco with that t4 between 6-8.5rpm as you know it's insane love it's delivery to the Rev limiter but it the gear change that struggles at that revs tbh
You can't win,high Reving engine need sequential £££££
Bw £££££££ to get it
Either way it's ££££££ lol
Both motors have ups and downs either way

The plain and simple of it lies here.
With a turbo you don't get something for nothing.
If you want response you create back pressure at higher revs, the only thing EFR are doing is making the gap between the two better.
In my experience with proper back pressure testing the 7670 for example is a great road turbo, however I wouldn't use it on our race engines that require 8k plus rpm for gear ratios etc as the back pressure gets astronomical.
The transient lag is pretty special, the spool after gear change is what makes these so good.

It's horses for courses with these turbos. On our 700bhp 2.2s the EFR 8374 is useless compared to an "old school" turbo we use apart from its great transient lag. a turbo dosnt make the engine the whole package needs to work.

Ps your t4 must be aweful not working below 6k.
I have 32psi at 4k rpm and 550bhp to the 8k rpm rev limit

[DAI COSSY]

The plain and simple of it lies here.
With a turbo you don't get something for nothing.
If you want response you create back pressure at higher revs, the only thing EFR are doing is making the gap between the two better.
In my experience with proper back pressure testing the 7670 for example is a great road turbo, however I wouldn't use it on our race engines that require 8k plus rpm for gear ratios etc as the back pressure gets astronomical.
The transient lag is pretty special, the spool after gear change is what makes these so good.

It's horses for courses with these turbos. On our 700bhp 2.2s the EFR 8374 is useless compared to an "old school" turbo we use apart from its great transient lag. a turbo dosnt make the engine the whole package needs to work.

Ps your t4 must be aweful not working below 6k.
I have 32psi at 4k rpm and 550bhp to the 8k rpm rev limit

Thanks for the info,I didn't say it wasn't making power below 6 my sort of question to myself was the bw turbo would it be no use with a engine that design to rev to 8+ Thinking would it be better suited to the motor I have that revs to 7
My t4 is making power at 4 how much power I don't know,in all fairness it could be making good bhp it does pull strong from 4 then to 6 it's pulling hard and as said in my eyes it gets mental from there to limiter, I don't see it as a really laggy turbo compared to the t38 I had,but at the top is where I find it amusing wich is what I was saying thanks Dai

[AJC]

Have you booked the dyno yet.

Mark

Not yet Mark no. Will be speaking to my mapper about it this weekend.

Cheers

[SCS j1mbo]

Thanks for the info,I didn't say it wasn't making power below 6 my sort of question to myself was the bw turbo would it be no use with a engine that design to rev to 8+ Thinking would it be better suited to the motor I have that revs to 7
My t4 is making power at 4 how much power I don't know,in all fairness it could be making good bhp it does pull strong from 4 then to 6 it's pulling hard and as said in my eyes it gets mental from there to limiter, I don't see it as a really laggy turbo compared to the t38 I had,but at the top is where I find it amusing wich is what I was saying thanks Dai

Sorry Dai, I'm with you. I love an old t4, have their downfalls for sure though.

It all depends what power as if you wanted 560 for example you can tale the boost as your engine revs to keep the big revs but it's all a compromise.
Really at 7500 the back pressure at 580bhp is borderline. After that it sky rockets so we capped this engine around 7600.
Very much a road car set up where peak back pressure isn't so important as the revs are not continuously there.

[DAI COSSY]

Sorry Dai, I'm with you. I love an old t4, have their downfalls for sure though.

It all depends what power as if you wanted 560 for example you can tale the boost as your engine revs to keep the big revs but it's all a compromise.
Really at 7500 the back pressure at 580bhp is borderline. After that it sky rockets so we capped this engine around 7600.
Very much a road car set up where peak back pressure isn't so important as the revs are not continuously there.

Please excuse my intellect,as I don't really know what the back pressure means I'm asumming it unusable air at high Rev dunno:if so would a low comp ratio help that at high Rev or am I talking nonsense thanks again

[DAI COSSY]

works great on my 7.5 - 1

see how the 7670 does on the 2wd saff with 8-1

Sorry to jack your thread mate,really intrested in these bw turbos and find all the factors surrounding old verses new fascinating tbh

[mark shead]

Please excuse my intellect,as I don't really know what the back pressure means I'm asumming it unusable air at high Rev dunno:if so would a low comp ratio help that at high Rev or am I talking nonsense thanks again

It means you have in excess of 1.5 to 1 boost pressure in exhaust manifold, In relaity it does not cause a problem on a road car driven and mapped correctly,
Trying to get 600hp out of a 600hp turbo will always mean this will happen, If this doesnt float your boat put a 8374 and run it at 600hp and you wont have a problem and will still outspool a T4.

Mark